One of the more interesting policy debates, both in America and around the world, is whether convoluted and counterproductive welfare states should be scrapped and replaced with a “basic income” payment from the government.
Finland is experimenting with the concept.
Authorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout of €800 (£576) each month. Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income. …the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments.
This idea has been, or will be, tried in a few places.
…previous experiments where a basic income has been successfully trialed. The Canadian town of Dauphin experimented with a basic income guarantee in the 1970s and the results – both social and economic – were largely positive. …The Dutch city of Utrecht is also planning to introduce a basic income, albeit solely for welfare recipients. From next month more than 250 unemployed residents of the city will be given a monthly sum to live on, with researchers monitoring the outcome to determine what effect it has on employment.
In a column for City Journal, Guy Sorman has a positive assessment of the Finnish plan.
…each citizen will be free to use the money as he or she sees fit. The idea is that people are responsible for their actions. If someone decides to spend their €800 on vodka, that is their decision, and has nothing to do with the government. In return for the UBI, however, the public accepts the elimination of most welfare services. Currently, the Finnish government offers a variety of income-based assistance programs for everything from housing to children’s education to property insulation. Axing these programs should free up enough public resources to finance the UBI. The bureaucracy that currently governs welfare payments will disappear. …The Left is cheered by the socialistic idea of government-assistance-for-all. The Right looks forward to the unprecedented drop in bureaucratic control over citizens… The Finnish government is expecting the negative income tax to have a beneficial effect on employment and growth.
Though apparently the scheme will have a limited rollout.
Finland’s trial of a basic income model is set to start in 2017 and will involve a payment of 550 euros to those selected to participate.
And those selected will be a limited group.
…the full, unconditional basic income proposal would be too expensive. Instead the trial will target people already in receipt of benefits and offer a basic income at the same level to replace them. …People would then be able to take on new work without losing their social security payments, which could remove one of the disincentives to employment. People with income-linked unemployment benefits, which are higher than the state-provided basic unemployment benefit, would continue to receive them. …The trial will focus on individuals aged 25 to 63 with low incomes as that group will provide the best data on whether or not the basic income increases employment.
Here’s more reporting about the potential Dutch experiment.
…in Utrecht, one of the largest cities in the Netherlands, and 19 other Dutch municipalities, a tentative step… “We don’t call it a basic income in Utrecht because people have an idea about it – that it is just free money and people will sit at home and watch TV,” said Heleen de Boer, a Green councillor in that city, which is half an hour south of Amsterdam. Nevertheless, the municipalities are, in the words of de Boer, taking a “small step” towards a basic income for all by allowing small groups of benefit claimants to be paid £660 a month – and keep any earnings they make from work on top of that. Their monthly pay will not be means-tested. They will instead have the security of that cash every month, and the option to decide whether they want to add to that by finding work. …The motivation behind the experiment in Utrecht, according to Nienke Horst, a senior policy adviser to the municipality’s Liberal Democrat leadership, is for claimants to avoid the “poverty trap” – the fact that if they earn, they will lose benefits, and potentially be worse off.
The concept is also gaining traction in New Zealand.
Leader of the opposition Andrew Little said his Labour party was considering the idea as part of proposals to combat the “possibility of higher structural unemployment”. …Mr Little confirmed his party would debate the idea at its conference on employment at the end of March. He said significant changes to way people worked were “unavoidable” and “we expect that in the future world of work there will be at least a portion of the workforce that will rapidly move in and out of work”.
You’ll have noticed that some of the arguments for basic income seem very reasonable. Improve incentives to work and reduce bureaucracy.
Indeed, this is why the idea has support among some sensible people. I cited some of them in my article back in 2013, but there are several more.
Sam Bowman explains his support for the concept in a column for the London-based Adam Smith Institute.
For me, it’s about improving the capitalism we already have. …it would be an improvement, for three main reasons.
His first reason is that some people would benefit from more money, though I’m not sure this has anything to do with “improving capitalism.”
Our existing welfare system is designed for a world where finding a job would be enough to give most people a tolerable standard of living. But in-work poverty is an increasing problem…a basic income would reorient the whole system towards helping people who don’t have enough money, irrespective of why that is.
His second reason is that it would be good to streamline the welfare state.
Our existing welfare system has built up a large amount of unnecessary complexity that could be streamlined. …benefits are fundamentally about giving money to people who do not have enough of it. Housing benefit, the pension credit, jobseeker’s allowance, income support and tax credits all do this. …Reducing complexity is valuable but not the only, or indeed the main, appeal of the basic income.
And his third reason is that a basic income could be matched with other reforms that would boost economic performance.
Many other policies that would increase total wealth are not very progressive…doing these things ends up making lower earners pay more tax than we would like. …An easy way to correct that would be to redistribute the overall wealth gain to those poor natives so that they too are made better off in the short run as well as the long run.
Writing for National Review, Iain Murray adds his sympathetic analysis.
Anyone who wants some creature comforts, which most of poor do…would be encouraged to work rather than the reverse. …Most people will use money to make their lives better. Indeed, there is some evidence that most poor people suddenly presented with what amounts to capital will become capitalists. This is surely a good thing. …The lack of a welfare bureaucracy will also encourage charity and mutual aid for the really hard cases.
Though he does recognize that there are “two big, and possibly irresolvable, caveats.”
…unless we were to find some way of exempting this from the political process, politicians would…turn it into a UBI plus extra, targeted, welfare system. …it still relies on robbing Peter to pay Paul, even if Peter gets some of the money back.
Now let’s shift back from theory to the real world. Switzerland is poised to vote early next month on a referendum that would provide a rather generous government-guaranteed income every month.
Switzerland will become the first country in the world to vote on the introduction of unconditional income at the national level. But it has not won much support from traditional politicians, even those on the left. …The federal government estimates the cost of the proposal at 208 billion francs a year. Around 153 billion taxes would have to be levied from taxes, while 55 billion francs would be transferred from social insurance and social assistance spending.
Why is the cost so expensive? Because, as explained in another article, the referendum would provide “a basic income of about 2,500 francs ($2,600) a month.”
Which may explain why it appears the traditionally sensible Swiss voters almost certainly will vote against the scheme by an overwhelming margin.
Seventy-two percent were against establishing the unconditional stipend, which the initiators say would “enable the entire population have a decent existence and participate in public life,” the survey found. Just 24 percent support it, while 4 percent were still undecided, had voting been conducted this month. “Support for the ‘no’-camp is expected to increase as the campaign progresses,” pollster gfs.bern said in its survey for broadcaster SRG published on Friday. “This indicates a clear rejection on the day of the ballot.” The basic income vote will take place on June 5.
For what it’s worth, I’m at a conference in Switzerland, where I spoke earlier today on this topic as part of a panel that included my colleague Michael Tanner, along with former Labor Secretary Robert Reich and Swiss Professor Reiner Eichenberger.
I urged the audience to oppose the referendum because of what I called a nope-hope-dope argument.
- The “nope” part is my rejection of the belief on the left that technology will destroy jobs. We’ve had major changes in the economy, leading first to big losses in agricultural jobs and then significant losses in manufacturing jobs. But those changes didn’t lead to less employment. Instead, those jobs were lost as part of changes that made all of us much wealthier. So while I have no idea what will happen in the future, I have considerable faith that market forces will create productive options for people.
- The “hope” part is my admiration of the private initiatives that are taking place and my semi-support for the local experiments that are taking place. I want poor people to have more money and I want them to have hope. And these experiments by private charities and local governments may teach us useful things that help us reform the very inefficient welfare states operated by central governments.
- And the “dope” part of my presentation was my description of the people who think that we would get good results with a basic income scheme operated by central governments. Simply stated, I fear that such a proposal would be too generous, thus reducing over time incentives to work (perfectly captured by this Wizard-of-Id parody). I also fear it would require economically destructive tax rates, either explicitly to fund a basic income for everyone, or implicitly because it would be phased out like the EITC and therefore drive a larger wedge between pre-tax income and post-tax consumption for a huge number of taxpayers.
Here, for posterity, is a photo of the panelists.
I did mention, by the way, that it would be very interesting to see an individual Swiss canton conduct an experiment, replacing all current redistribution schemes with a basic income.
And since the supporters of the referendum tweeted that statement, I’ll interpret that as a sign that I’m a consensus builder!
But I have to confess that the organizers of the conference probably should have cast me aside and instead invited Professor David Henderson of the Naval Postgraduate School.
In a new article for the Independent Institute, he looks the real-world numbers for the United States and throws very cold water on the idea of the basic income guarantee. Here’s an excerpt of his calculation of the fiscal cost of such a scheme.
The annual BIG expenditure for U.S. citizens, then, would be approximately $2.068 trillion. This expenditure estimate does not include any expenditure for administering the program or for monitoring for fraud. In other words, it is a minimum estimate. …Assume, as Zwolinski advocates, that such a program would displace all 126 federal antipoverty programs and all state and local government antipoverty programs. …Notice what would happen. A $2.068 trillion program would replace programs whose total expenditures in 2012 were $952 billion. Even rounding up the $952 billion to $1 trillion, the program that Zwolinski advocates is more than twice as costly in budgetary terms as current antipoverty programs. …How would Zwolinski fund this major increase in federal spending? …he would need to have the federal government increase taxes from their estimated $2.993 trillion to $4.361 trillion, an increase of 45.7 percent.
Those fiscal costs could be reduced with a clawback mechanism (i.e., means testing the basic income grant), but that would require very high implicit marginal tax rates.
Zwolinski suggests a way around the huge tax increases that I have laid out: the way proposed by Charles Murray in his book In Our Hands: A Plan to Replace the Welfare State (2006). That method is to tax $5,000 of the $10,000 grant with a 20-percentage-point increase in the marginal tax rate on people who make $25,000 or more. At the $50,000 income level, $5,000 of the grant would be paid back. This method does reduce the amount of other taxation required, but, of course, it increases marginal tax rates over a range of incomes by 20 percentage points. …This increase would be a substantial disincentive to work and a substantial incentive to make money in the underground economy.
And he also cites what I fear would be an enormous problem, which is that we couldn’t trust politicians to keep the basic income grant at a modest level, and we also couldn’t trust them to permanently eliminate other redistribution problems.
…there is another major problem: the “public-choice” problem. …those who advocate further government programs…must show that there is a high probability that such government programs will not grow further. …in the case of a BIG, they must show that there is a high probability that a scaled-down BIG really would replace all of the existing programs for the poor and near poor. This is hard to do because the various interest groups that favor the existing programs will not sit back: they will fight to keep some or all of those programs. Zwolinski…writes that if the BIG “were implemented via a constitutional amendment, many of the public choice considerations could be reduced, I think, to an acceptable level.”11 Yet, as Randy Barnett (2004) and Robert Levy and William Mellor (2008) show, even strict constitutional limits on federal government power have yielded to the U.S. president, Congress, and the courts.
Think of this as presenting the same challenge presented by a national sales tax or value-added tax. There are good arguments for those proposals, but the most powerful objection is that politicians can’t be trusted to permanently eliminate or reduce existing income taxes.
So if a basic income isn’t the answer, what should we do?
I agree with the scholars from the Austrian School that decentralization is the right approach. We already did that for basic welfare payments during the Clinton years, and we should do it for all other forms of income redistribution, perhaps starting with food stamps and Medicaid.
[…] wrong about the margin of victory (77 percent rather than 78 percent), wrong about the year (it was in 2016 not 2015), and the proposed handouts were even bigger than I […]
[…] wrong about the margin of victory (77 percent rather than 78 percent), wrong about the year (it was in 2016 not 2015), and the proposed handouts were even bigger than I […]
[…] took that trip down Memory Lane because of a rather insipid tweet from my occasional sparringpartner, Robert Reich. He wants his followers to think that inflation is caused by […]
[…] The problem with that approach (and the problemwith other types of redistribution)is that some people will choose not to work if they can simply rely on handouts from the government. […]
[…] The problem with that approach (and the problem with other types of redistribution) is that some people will choose not to work if they can simply rely on handouts from the government. […]
[…] took that trip down Memory Lane because of a rather insipid tweet from my occasional sparring partner, Robert Reich. He wants his followers to think that inflation is caused by […]
[…] mentioned how Biden’s per-child handouts could lure many more into full dependency, but “basic income” could be far […]
[…] mentioned how Biden’s per-child handouts could lure many more into full dependency, but “basic income” could be far […]
[…] mentioned how Biden’s per-child handouts could lure many more into full dependency, but “basic income” could be far […]
[…] mentioned how Biden’s per-child handouts could lure many more into full dependency, but “basic income” could be far […]
[…] how Biden’s per-child handouts could lure many more into full dependency, but “basic income” could be far […]
[…] Swiss voters overwhelmingly rejected a referendum for basic income back in 2016 (perhaps my speech in Switzerland convinced a few […]
[…] per-child handouts could be the camel’s nose under the tent for a “basic income,” which is the crazy notion that government should give everyone money. That’s an additional reason to reject the idea, as […]
[…] handouts could be the camel’s nose under the tent for a “basic income,” which is the crazy notion that government should give everyone money. That’s an additional reason to reject the idea, […]
[…] and here) but also respect some of those who are against it (here and here though I feel these arguments are a bit knee jerk and don’t look at the bigger picture). And […]
[…] Andrew Yang, the guy who ran for president promising every American a monthly check (a.k.a., universal basic income)? Well, somebody has cleverly illustrated how Republicans have suddenly embraced a version of that […]
[…] the risk of understatement, giving every adult a $12,000-per-year entitlement would be a recipe for bigger government and more […]
[…] I’ve repeatedly warned (over and over again) that any theoretical attributes don’t matter because politicians almost certainly […]
[…] bar for success. Basic income no longer should be supported because it will encourage more work (as some claim). Instead, we should support it because non-working people will be happy to get more […]
[…] in support for bad ideas has to count as good news, right? On that basis, I’m encouraged that the notion of universal government handouts became less popular in 2018. Likewise, I’m glad that […]
[…] place that gets infatuated with trendy ideas. A few years ago, everyone was talking about a “universal basic income” because of the strange assumption that millions of people will be unemployable in the […]
[…] Más allá de eso, no estoy seguro de si los empleos públicos para trabajar son más dañinos o si lo es la renta básica. […]
[…] I also fear that a basic income will lead to an ever-expanding burden of government spending, particularly once net beneficiaries figure out they can vote themselves more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] that, I’m not sure whether make-work government jobs are more harmful or basic income is more […]
[…] I also fear that a basic income will lead to an ever-expanding burden of government spending, particularly once net beneficiaries figure out they can vote themselves more […]
[…] I also fear that a basic income will lead to an ever-expanding burden of government spending, particularly once net beneficiaries figure out they can vote themselves more […]
[…] I also fear that a basic income will lead to an ever-expanding burden of government spending, particularly once net beneficiaries figure out they can vote themselves more […]
[…] Ugh. Basic income is a very troubling idea. […]
[…] Ugh. Basic income is a very troubling idea. […]
[…] White House to the GOP. Hopefully the Democrats will be less likely to do something really bad or really crazy the next time they hold […]
[…] to Dam Mitchell’s essay on this topic for various […]
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[…] I’m nonetheless very skepitcal. Simply stated, the math doesn’t work, people would have less incentive to work, and there […]
[…] nonsense, if not outright prevarication. This is a new redistribution program. Sort of like the “basic income” scheme being promoted by some […]
1. People’s perception of poverty is based on comparing themselves with those around them. If you have a UBI, then whatever standard of living you can afford on a UBI automatically becomes “poverty.” Never mind that people in Pakistan can’t afford a bicycle and a flush toilet… I can’t even buy a decent car on my lousy UBI!
2. Consumer inflation. More money chasing fewer goods. Don’t be an idiot.
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[…] if not outright prevarication. This is a new redistribution program. Sort of like the “basic income” scheme being promoted by some […]
[…] opponents are Marine Le Pen, a big-government populist, and Benoît Hamon, a socialist who favors a taxpayer-provided basic income for everyone, maybe Fillon actually is the only choice for French voters with libertarian impulses, […]
[…] as I’ve argued before, this approach would also create an incentive for people to simply live off taxpayers. Especially […]
[…] as I’ve argued before, this approach would also create an incentive for people to simply live off taxpayers. Especially […]
[…] rejected an initiative to impose such a policy. I even like to think that perhaps I played a (very minor) role in the […]
Nedlandp, government wants to pick winners and losers. The winners? Government cronies. The losers? Hard working taxpayers and people like you and me.
Jeffrey
I agree with everything I’ve said. You’ve come up with nothing but platitudes, so I guess we’re in full agreement, with everything but your favorable attitude toward the FairTax.
Nedlandp, where would you say we are in agreement and where would you say we have a disagreement?
Jeffrey
Of course. Neither of them would propose such an idea.
Nedlandp, I think everyone should be able to keep every penny they earn. That money is actually theirs, not the government’s. Have you read Thomas Sowell’s writings or those of Milton Friedman?
Jeffrey
Minimum wage laws have nothing to do with dependency. They’re just bad economics that will create dependency by putting people out of work.
A basic income may have some slight disincentive because people would not be starving and willing to do anything legal or illegal to get food or shelter. Any payments above the poverty line would be excessive and intended to make them comfortable, which would be horrible for incentives on those who can work. States should focus welfare above the poverty amount on those who cannot work.
The current safety-net programs, particularly welfare, are miserable. Unless we move to a UBI we’re stuck with them. There is no migration path from where we are to full elimination of support by moving to the charitable support that Dan and others support. Let’s bypass the bureaucrats by giving money currently being spent on safety-net and tax deductions to all citizens regardless of income.
The incentives would come from the 75% they would get to keep with a 25% flat tax. With the UBI incorporated into the tax code, citizens would no longer be dependent on the nanny state. They would have to take personal and financial responsibility for their own actions.
You say a UBI is not practical. Are you defending the status quo as practical???
Nedlandp, implementation of a basic income just like the current minimum wage laws would lead to more dependency, not less. Challenge what Dan Mitchell is saying if you want, however, the idea of a government instituted basic income is not as practical as some would have you believe.
Jeffrey
Advocates for a UBI believe that no citizen should live in poverty unless by their own actions they bring it upon themselves. They believe the money we are currently spending is not efficiently spent. They believe disincentives should be eliminated. They believe that the move toward smaller government should start by bypassing and eliminating bureaucrats. They believe legislators should stop manipulating regulation and the tax code. They believe it will be easier to control spending by tracking one big thing, rather than a multitude of agencies that are all motivated to grow. They believe a flat tax would be most efficient with a UBI because employees would no longer need to file federal tax forms, which could be accurately filed by the employer. They believe a flat tax will not be politically viable without some carrot to push it and legislators over the finish line.
But since you think their reasoning is faulty maybe you can explain why they haven’t considered all the ramifications.
Nedlandp, I can understand why advocates of a government-provided basic income think the way they do. However, their reasoning is faulty.
Kyle
My point is that it makes no sense to create a benefit cliff, where an individual loses $4,000-6,000 in benefits, by earning $1 more. (See Julia’s Mother chart) Obviously they must stop working. The path out of poverty should be smoothed as much as possible, to encourage self-sufficiency.
My suggestion is a flat tax on all income, so everyone faces a maximum of 25% federal tax.
I’m sorry but you don’t convince me with your marginal rate argument. The only reason the marginal rate is so high is because any positive number is greater than zero. With no taxes paid, what right do they have to tell those who support them how much to give? And the high marginal rate is the very reason that we have so much dependency in this country. A lousy situation at best.
[…] like to take credit for these results. I was in Switzerland early last month to discuss and debate this plan. Here’s what I said (click here to watch the entire panel […]
Jeffrey
I agree, but we must keep in mind that the highest marginal tax rates are currently paid by single mothers and the disabled, when the potential loss of benefits is considered.
Any revision to the tax code is deficient it it doesn’t recognize this problem.
To clarify, the $2,500 is by no stretch of the imagination a “basic income”. It is an incentive destroying give-away, which would be added on top of existing “need” programs.
To be successful, a “basic income” must be 100% of the poverty line, no more no less. It must also be “unconditional”, unaffected by the amount of earned income. These payments should be deducted from existing federal safety-net payment for no net effect on those being currently supported. The shift occurs in the reduction of disincentives and the flexibility that comes with receiving cash rather than “in kind” benefits, filtered through various bureaucracies.
I believe that the amount in the Swiss bill was a “poison pill” so the bill would die a certain death. However, in the process they gave ammunition to basic income detractors, regarding what “could” happen. Frankly, it couldn’t happen in Switzerland or the U.S., because that higher amount would destroy the economy with incentive killing high tax rates.
The Finnish proposal is the one to watch.
“$2,500 to one and all: Swiss vote on landmark monthly ‘basic income’ law”
Published time: 5 Jun, 2016 06:01
https://www.rt.com/news/345456-swiss-referendum-basic-income/
The solution to this is to let people keep most or all of what they earn.
W R:
Good comment.
One appropriate Hayek quote goes as follows: “Adequate security against severe privation,…, will have to be one of the main goals of policy. But if these endeavors are to be successful and are not to destroy individual freedom, security must be provide outside the market and competition left to function unobstructed.” [pg 132]
One argument for a UBI, is that it would not interfere with market mechanisms. For example, the idea of a “living wage” should go away. Current attempts to fix prices, with a “minimum wage” are going to have horrible economic consequences.
If you’ve read ‘The Road to Serfdom’, you know FA Hayek recommended a guaranteed income to those needing to change jobs. Reason was to keep the wheels of capitalism moving, so folks could seek the jobs that suited them best, and employers the reverse.
Richard Hencke
On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 7:37 AM, International Liberty wrote:
> Dan Mitchell posted: “One of the more interesting policy debates, both in > America and around the world, is whether convoluted and counterproductive > welfare states should be scrapped and replaced with a “basic income” > payment from the government. Finland is experimenting wit” >
crisbd:
Don’t know if this is the same as the experiment done in conjunction with Milton Friedman. In that experiment they set up an income “floor” (not the method proposed by Friedman, so a lost opportunity). The problem with that was that as you earned income, you lost benefits, so the effective marginal tax was very high and it discouraged work. A second problem was that many of the participants were double dipping, receiving the cash and then getting food stamps in another jurisdiction.
To work, it is critical that the Basic Income be basic, enough to provide minimal support, but not enough to be comfortable or the incentive to work is reduced. No support at all leaves people desperate enough to make bad choices.
Also, it must be “unconditional” or unrelated to income earned. It makes no sense to have people working their way out of poverty paying higher effective tax rates than the wealthy. This is why a UBI must be married to something like a flat tax. The UBI would act the same as a standard deduction credit that would result in a refund for incomes less than the deduction amount. However, the ability to separate cash distribution and revenue collection is huge in terms of business efficiency, since the withholding calculation would be gross income times flat tax rate. No need for employees to file any tax forms at all. Businesses would file on their behalf to receive a deduction for gross incomes paid.
Effective tax rates would be a smooth curve from negative up to the flat tax rate. A graph of net income vs gross income would start at the poverty line and go up in a straight line as gross income increased. The angle would be the reciprocal of the flat tax rate.
V-MAX:
Thanks for the link!
“FINLAND: Basic income experiment – what we know”
by Vito Laterza
http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/12/finland-basic-income-experiment-what-we-know/
I seem to remember that somewhere in the USA tried a guaranteed no-strings-attached lump sum income grant many years ago. The results were uniformly unencouraging, the recipients weren’t motivated to work and the work ethic disappeared. The welfare lobby didn’t like the results and buried them.
I don’t recall this being the Canadian town of Dauphin’s basic income guarantee, which you say gave largely positive results (I’m very dubious about the accuracy of that assessment), but that was an income guarantee, it seems, not a no-strings-attached lump sum monthly grant.
Paul:
A federal demogrant that is adjusted for local cost of living is a mistake — too complicated and wide open for political manipulation. The federal government should provide equal support to all.
If the states want to adjust for local conditions, they can pay for it.
Kyle:
The raison d’etre of a UBI is a replacement for our current system. We want to get rid of the nanny state and replace it with a system that does not discriminate between individuals, and forces them to take financial responsibility for their actions.
Everyone would receive poverty level support and pay a flat tax from the first dollar earned. If you look at a graph, at zero gross income they receive poverty level support that is not intended to be enough to live comfortably, just enough to get by. From there, net income rises in a straight line. At a 25% flat tax they would keep 75% of gross earnings (not including any state taxes).
For a chance to debate this and other issues, I have a brand new blog:
fixingthefederalgovernment.com
For a chance to debate tax and other issues, I have started a new blog:
https://fixingthefederalgovernment.com
Final comment:
A flat tax, with the elimination of all wealth taxes, is economically the right move. However, it is politically unacceptable to the majority of the voting public, because it seems to benefit “the rich”.
Think of the UBI as an equalizer necessary to get passage of a flat tax.
Who does a UBI benefit? It doesn’t benefit those currently on welfare or any of the other safety-net programs mentioned above, because their benefits are reduced dollar-for-dollar. It shifts all benefits to those at the bottom of the income ladder not currently receiving any benefits. The wealthy are no longer tax advantaged, by mortgage, charitable, state tax, healthcare, and pension deductions. Benefits are shifted to those earning lower amounts.
The combination of flat tax and UBI will probably mean that the wealthy pay more in taxes, however, it will be on higher gross incomes and investment returns as the benefits of tax simplification kick in.
A UBI would necessarily create a smaller government.
Size of government can be measured two ways, money spent and number of bureaucrats.
At the beginning, money spent would be neutral. Number of bureaucrats and number of agencies would be drastically reduced.
Regarding a “government run program”: A UBI payment would go out monthly to adult citizens only [legal immigrants and working minors would receive rebates on taxes paid up to the UBI amount].
This program would be automatic, in that the same dollar amount would go out to every citizen. There would be severe penalties for fraud and fraud would be easy to identify, either double payment or taking someone else’s UBI.
For example: If the monthly payment was $1,000 and there were 200,000,001 adult citizens, the monthly total should be $2,000,001,000. “Government management” would involve keeping accurate track of citizens and inflation adjustments.
Contrast that against 126 different agencies dispensing government funds on an ad hoc basis.
Dan:
I completely agree that states, local governments, and charities should handle special cases, however, that would be on top of a flat UBI payment from the federal government.
Your $952 billion assumed getting rid of all welfare at every level. A study by the Cato Institute shows state by state levels of support that run +200% of the poverty line. [Hawaii = $60,000, MA = $50,000] A UBI should not target these levels of support.
It will be important that the states shift to “those in need”, but they should pay for their decisions.
The UBI is a safety-net and should eliminate federal welfare, and reduce unemployment, disability, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on a dollar for dollar basis, so there is no financial impact on those currently receiving safety-net support. However, those financial reductions help pay for the UBI.
Dan:
You are wrong that taxes will have to be increased.
You have not included the $1.2 trillion in “tax expenditures” that would come by eliminating tax deductions with a flat tax.
[I understand that it is not an expenditure when you let people keep what they have earned, however, the “expense” of giving a UBI to someone who pays far more than that in taxes is not really an “expense” either. It’s the same money, even though one is a reduction in taxes and the other is payment out of taxes paid.]
Dan:
I’m surprised that you have taken a macroeconomic look at “lost jobs”. While I agree that technology does not reduce net jobs, we are talking about the impact on individuals, who do lose individual jobs.
If we want a more dynamic work force for 21st century, we must create a safety-net that supports a “gig economy”. Individuals must become flexible enough to adapt, whether job loss is voluntary or involuntary. In addition, things like healthcare and retirement savings must travel with the individual.
We certainly do not want to maintain a system that rewards staying out of work. Since a UBI is there whether or not the individual is working it creates no disincentive.
Unemployment benefits should still be available, but at half the current rate.
A Unconditional Basic Income tied to the poverty line would satisfy Dan’s Golden Rule.
The UBI would be indexed to inflation. Growth in number of citizens is 0.9% annually. Since GDP is adjusted for inflation, GDP would only have to hit +1% annually to grow faster than spending.
Regarding the threat that politicians would increase the UBI, which is more likely, an increase of in a program that effects every citizen [$20 billion per 1% increase], or increased dependency and upward adjustments from the 126 antipoverty programs we currently have?
Switzerland is not an example of a Basic Income. A Basic Income is 100% of the poverty line, no more no less.
magic… straight the little Keynesian shop on Diagon Alley…
Personally, I think that even if the Basic Guaranteed Income were to work in Finland (Pop. 5.5M), the Netherlands (Pop. 16.8M), New Zealand (Pop. under 5M), or Switzerland (8.8M), its working in the U.S. (Pop. 325M–all figures approximate) is questionable. And the issue is not just size.
Let’s say that the Republicrats agreed that every American should have $2K/month as a basic guaranteed income based on the minimum cost of living in New York City, LA, Chicago, or DC. This comes out to approximately $12/hour. It would be a tough go in one of those big cities, but in the rural South or Midwest, $24K/year would actually be a very livable income for a single person. A one-size-fits-all approach would create quite a disparity if one looks at what money can do rather than how much money there is.
If we were to consider such a BGI, a preliminary step, it seems to me, would be to divide the United States into 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 different states based upon similarities as well as geography. If we divided the U.S.into 10 separate sovereign nations, each one would have about 33M people, a size much more in line with the European nations that the Left here would love to emulate.
We could start with a buffer period (maybe 5 years) during which each state would be required to provide free access and citizenship to anyone from the current U.S. who would want to move there, after which each nation could establish its own immigration policies. We could also establish a kind of E.U., without the expensive and top-heavy bureaucracy.
Of course, each sovereign state or commonwealth would remain as it is
Personally, I think such a division would solve all sorts of problems, though undoubtedly new problems would arise. However, if our biggest problem is the political division in the nation that keeps us from taking care of major issues like poverty, splitting the U.S. up into 10 states (or so) would provide an opportunity to have at least 7 or 8 relatively unified nations.
The plans sound like “used oats” to me. Until one can unquestionably differentiate laziness from bad luck or psycho-physical limitations, it won’t work. There is also no requirement for the recipients to have ‘skin’ in the game. The money is, after all, free – something for doing nothing. Not even attending schools to improve chances for gaining employment.
More government sponsored dependency. Without a educational requirement, we’ll also see more elections like the one for president now shaping up here in the USA. Speaking of voters who know nothing or are incapable of having a critical thought…