I spoke at the Tea Party Patriots convention earlier today. Great people, great crowd.
My job was to debate on the side of the flat tax over the fair tax. Several people asked for more information, and I promised to put this video on the blog. Long-time readers probably will have seen it before, but it’s always good to be reminded why we need tax reform – and also reminded why we can’t trust politicians with a new source of revenue.
[…] I do worry about the political blowback against a Fair Tax, I hope Speaker McCarthy keeps his promise and there is a floor […]
[…] I do worry about the political blowback against a Fair Tax, I hope Speaker McCarthy keeps his promise and there is a floor […]
[…] I do worry about the political blowback against a Fair Tax, I hope Speaker McCarthy keeps his promise and there is a floor […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] fear that a similar case today would not lead to the right result (which is one of the reasons I’m skeptical of a national sales […]
[…] question the political viability of that approach, but I’ve always defended the sales […]
[…] Some of my friends and allies who supported the Fair Tax sometimes played fast and loose with the truth. That plan would have required the government to […]
[…] would create a basic income but then not fully repeal the existing welfare state (very similar to my concern that politicians would like to have a national sales tax or value-added tax without fully […]
[…] would create a basic income but then not fully repeal the existing welfare state (very similar to my concern that politicians would like to have a national sales tax or value-added tax without fully […]
[…] would create a basic income but then not fully repeal the existing welfare state (very similar to my concern that politicians would like to have a national sales tax or value-added tax without fully […]
If we had a flat tax, I would say 12% on all incomes above $270, 000.00. Only deductions I would keep are for state and local taxes, business purchases, charitable donations and health insurance. The tax deduction for charitable donations would not be capped.
[…] of this as presenting the same challenge presented by a national sales tax or value-added tax. There are good arguments for those proposals, but the most powerful objection […]
[…] but it’s either impractical (because there aren’t enough votes to repeal the 16th Amendment) or too risky (because the crowd in Washington would adopt a sales tax without completely repealing the income […]
[…] either impractical (because there aren’t enough votes to repeal the 16th Amendment) or too risky (because the crowd in Washington would adopt a sales tax without completely repealing the income […]
[…] first need to repeal the 16th Amendment and replace it with something so ironclad that politicians could never do a bait and switch and saddle the American people with both an income tax and a consumption […]
[…] national sales tax should be off the table until the 16th Amendment is […]
[…] tax reform, if you give politicians a new tax, it’s very likely they will use the money to finance bigger government instead of abolishing an existing […]
[…] Risk: There is no value-added tax, which is a critically important feature of any tax reform plan. As such, there is no risk the Camp plan will become a Trojan Horse for a massive expansion in the fiscal burden. […]
[…] it’s worth noting that all the major pro-growth tax reform plans – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – also have no capital gains […]
[…] people who wonder whether we should adopt a national sales tax instead. That’s fine with me, for reasons I explain here, but you better make sure to first amend the Constitution so that scheming politicians don’t pull […]
[…] people who wonder whether we should adopt a national sales tax instead. That’s fine with me, for reasons I explain here, but you better make sure to first amend the Constitution so that scheming politicians don’t pull […]
[…] I don’t think this will lead to a simple and fair system like the flat tax. Or even a national sales tax (assuming we could trust politicians not to pull a bait-and-switch, adding a new tax and never […]
Until now I’ve wasted no time considering the possibility of changing our tax laws. However I am well aware of IR$ and their foibles. Let no crises go to waste, is very applicable presently. We must not let a battle between fair and flat dismantle the effort.
Where do we find the reputable, honest, unbiased individuals to guide us through this endeavor?
[…] P.S. I’ve referenced the flat tax in this post, but all of these obstacles also explain why there’s even less chance of a national sales tax. […]
[…] To conclude, the right tax base is what’s called “consumed income.” But that’s simply another way of saying that the system should only tax income one time, and it’s how income is defined for both the flat tax and national sales tax. […]
[…] a flat tax is a consumption-base tax since income is taxed only one time as it is earned, just as a national sales tax is a consumption-base tax since income is taxed only one time as it is spent. Moreover, a […]
[…] mostly write and talk about the flat tax, though I’d be happy to instead accept a national sales tax if we could somehow get rid of the 16th Amendment and replace it with something so ironclad that […]
[…] mostly write and talk about the flat tax, though I’d be happy to instead accept a national sales tax if we could somehow get rid of the 16th Amendment and replace it with something so ironclad that […]
[…] And that’s why I think the flat tax is a safer option. […]
[…] This video has additional details – including the one caveat that a national sales tax shouldn’t be enacted unless the 16th Amendment is repealed so there’s no threat that politicians could impose both an income tax and sales tax. […]
[…] And that’s why I think the flat tax is a safer option. […]
[…] it’s worth noting that all the major pro-growth tax reform plans – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – also have no capital gains […]
[…] Indeed, it’s worth noting that every pro-growth tax reform plan – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – eliminates this pernicious form of double […]
[…] worth noting that all the major pro-growth tax reform plans – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – also have no capital gains […]
[…] it’s worth noting that every pro-growth tax reform plan – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – eliminates this pernicious form of double […]
[…] it’s worth noting that every pro-growth tax reform plan – such as the flat tax or national sales tax – eliminates this pernicious form of double […]
[…] people who wonder whether we should adopt a national sales tax instead. That’s fine with me, for reasons I explain here, but you better make sure to first amend the Constitution so that scheming politicians don’t pull […]
[…] who wonder whether we should adopt a national sales tax instead. That’s fine with me, for reasons I explain here, but you better make sure to first amend the Constitution so that scheming politicians don’t […]
[…] tax system with one rate and no double taxation of income that is saved and invested. That can be a national sales tax or value-added tax, but it usually refers to the “Hall-Rabushka” flat tax championed by […]
[…] This video has additional details – including the one caveat that a national sales tax shouldn’t be enacted unless the 16th Amendment is repealed so there’s no threat that politicians could impose both an income tax and sales tax. […]
[…] I’ll also take a national sales tax, like the Fair Tax, as a replacement. But since I don’t trust politicians, that option requires that we first replace the 16th […]
[…] This video has additional details – including the one caveat that a national sales tax shouldn’t be enacted unless the 16th Amendment is repealed so there’s no threat that politicians could impose both an income tax and sales tax. […]
[…] This video has additional details – including the one caveat that a national sales tax shouldn’t be enacted unless the 16th Amendment is repealed so there’s no threat that politicians could impose both an income tax and sales tax. […]
[…] explained before that I’m skeptical of the Fair Tax, hostile to the value-added tax, and opposed to other forms of a national sales tax for the simple […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] of disguising a Value-Added Tax (VAT) as a corporate income tax, and for giving the government an added revenue stream by creating both an income and a national sales tax. I also have constitutional questions about a […]
[…] of disguising a Value-Added Tax (VAT) as a corporate income tax, and for giving the government an added revenue stream by creating both an income and a national sales tax. I also have constitutional questions about a […]
[…] that we degenerate back to the current system. The worst thing that happens with the 9-9-9 plan, as I explain in this video, is that politicians pull a bait-and-switch and America becomes Greece or France. Daniel J. […]
[…] that we degenerate back to the current system. The worst thing that happens with the 9-9-9 plan, as I explain in this video, is that politicians pull a bait-and-switch and America becomes Greece or France. […]
[…] that we degenerate back to the current system. The worst thing that happens with the 9-9-9 plan, as I explain in this video, is that politicians pull a bait-and-switch and America becomes Greece or France. Rate this: Share […]
[…] But I included a very important caveat. The intermediate stage of his three-step plan would enable politicians to impose both an income tax and a national sales tax. I wrote in my earlier post that I had faith in Herman Cain’s motives, but I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting the crowd in Washington have an extra source of rev…. […]
[…] sales tax. I wrote in my earlier post that I had faith in Herman Cain’s motives, but I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting the crowd in Washington have an extra source of rev… […]
[…] But I included a very important caveat. The intermediate stage of his three-step plan would enable politicians to impose both an income tax and a national sales tax. I wrote in my earlier post that I had faith in Herman Cain’s motives, but I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting the crowd in Washington have an extra source of rev…. […]
[…] But I included a very important caveat. The intermediate stage of his three-step plan would enable politicians to impose both an income tax and a national sales tax. I wrote in my earlier post that I had faith in Herman Cain’s motives, but I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea of letting the crowd in Washington have an extra source of rev…. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] But here’s the problem. If you happen to be one of those people (such as me) who does not trust politicians, then we run a grave risk if we ever let the crowd in Washington impose any sort of national sales tax without fi…. […]
@Tim Cashen
“I would only add that a flat tax plan should include a large personal exemption (eg ~$50,000). This would help quiet the squawking that a flat tax is unfair to the poor. Further, a graph of percent of income paid in taxes vs total income would illustrate that a flat tax with a large personal exemption isn’t really flat.”
ABSOLUTLY NOT ! A fair percentage across the board, is fair. The problem with exemptions is the system we have now. It all starts with oine exemption because this group is this…. or that group is that. No way !! An equal percentage means NO ONE can claim they are paying more than anybody else! They pay more money, but not percentage wise.
Your logic is impeccable.
1. Push for a sales tax, but ONLY on condition that the 16th amendment is repealed.
2. In the meantime a flat tax can be imposed tomorrow.
I would only add that a flat tax plan should include a large personal exemption (eg ~$50,000). This would help quiet the squawking that a flat tax is unfair to the poor. Further, a graph of percent of income paid in taxes vs total income would illustrate that a flat tax with a large personal exemption isn’t really flat.
Tim Cashen
[…] has been successful in dozens of other countries. So far, the flat tax has been adopted in roughly 24 countries. There’s a flat tax revolution going on around the globe and the United States needs to jump on […]
[…] has been successful in dozens of other countries. So far, the flat tax has been adopted in roughly 24 countries. There’s a flat tax revolution going on around the globe and the United States needs to jump on […]
I have experienced and shared with others some of the most horrible
behavior of the grotesquely, cruel and sadistic I R S. Abother day under
their supervision/scrutiny is absolutely anathema and unacceptable!!!
I would rather pay a national sales tax and no strings attached. I have
heard Flat Tax schemes by Neil Bordst and friends that offers paybacks to
the poor in order to level the playing field. I think not; because I see fraud.
Loved your coverage and intelligent explanation of the differences. Thanks.
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] I’ve been a big proponent of the flat tax, which would mean one low tax rate, no double taxation of savings, and no corrupt loopholes. But I’m also a big fan of national sales tax proposals such as the Fair Tax, assuming we can amend the Constitution so that greedy politicians don’t pull a bait and switch and impose both an income tax and a sales tax. […]
[…] enough attention to the national sales tax. I’ve explained that this is because I think the flat tax is more politically feasible, but the C-Span debate should demonstrate that I am more than happy to vigorously defend the Fair […]
[…] Dan Mitchell, with the CATO Institute, provides some reasons why he prefers the Flat Tax over the Fa… (sales tax) in this video: […]
Mark….Your link is a bunch of BS. You can’t be led astray that easily???
Boortz Fairtax is a massive fraud — and has been debunked. Sounds great but the fine print has a massive hidden tax, well over a trillion dollars hidden in taxes on city and state government.
Google Fairtax fine print, and see Fairtax spokesmen try to explain away the hidden deception.
As to a flat tax, it’s a rational idea, but Dan and others would scream bloody murder if we actually had a flat tax.
Just because Dan calls it “FLAT” doesn’t mean anything. In fact, his plan is as Flat as Pike’s Peak. One thing you learn about tax plans — they OFTEN are named exactly the opposite of what they are.
Dan’s Flat tax has zero tax on some income, and very high taxes on other income. Just depends what kind of income you have.
Want to hear Dan scream? Try to pass a real flat tax, an actual flat tax on all income. This is the test of people like Dan. He would come unglued.
Dan’s real aim is to get NO taxes on certain types of income. That’s what he is about. This “Flat”name is just a way to make it seem like its a flat tax. It’s not flat at all.
Oh Dan has all kinds of excuses to have zero tax on some kinds of income — all the excuses are BS by the way. The point is, his REAL aim is to get NO tax, absolutely NO tax, on certain types of income.
Let’s have an ACTUAL flat tax. I’m all for it. However you tax the small businessman who hires 10 people and works his rear end off, tax all income that same way.
However you tax the self employed plumber or roofer or brain surgeon, tax all income that way. How you make money is YOUR business. The government shouldnt be in the business of punishing one way to make a living, by having high taxes on it, but NO taxes on other income.
Dan knows that – he knows that SHOULD be what a flat tax is. But Dan wants to punish those who have to work for their money, those small businessmen, those self employed plumbers and doctors.
A self employed businessman risks his capital EVERY DAY. Every hour of the day, a competitor can come in and offer better, cheaper service. He employes people and provides goods or services. He works,he risks, he gets up the next day, and works more.
So why should this self employed businessman pay 10 or 20 or 40 times as much taxes, on the same income, as some guy making profit on credit swaps or leverage buy outs or whatever?
If anything, the businessman who actually works for a living and creates jobs shouldn’t pay any tax. At all. But this is the guy Dan’s Flat tax punishes! The self employed businessman has to pay very high taxes, compared to Dan’s favored income.
Dan wants certain incomes to not be taxed AT ALL. Okay.
Have those people who actually work for a living, who actually provide jobs and goods and services, don’t tax them.
Dan wants the leverage buy out income, the credit swap income, the “unearned” income to be tax free.
It’s almost tax free now! Right now that type of income is the lowest taxed income in America, over 50,000 dollars. Dan wants it to be completely tax free.
He wants the small businessman, the worker, the guy who has to work every day and run his business and employe others– THAT is the guy Dan’s plan hits very hard with taxes.
How about just stop all the deception. Have an actual flat tax — no double talk. All incomes pay the same. No BS. If you make it from credit swaps – FINE! God bless you.
If you work for it FINE. If you operate a small business for it FINE. However you want to make your money, God bless you!
Just tax everyone the same — none of this sneaky double talk from guys like Dan/
I always use the techs at http://www.mmlocksmithservices.com for all my auto, residential and commercial lock needs!
Love ya Dan wish you you would call Neal [i know a bag of wind] Bortz with your thoughts. The Fair Tax is not perfect but look what we have now! There is so much that could be so positive right now and continue to enrich our country as we go with The Fair Tax. If we had The Fair Tax we would not need your charts because we would not have to file income tax. Get with Neal. Take care….Pieman211