The previous edition of “you be the judge” asked whether restrictions on aggressive panhandling are justified.
I thought that was a bit of a quandary, but I’m more conflicted by today’s question about the bizarre episodes of the Hakken family.
As explained in this CNN story, they have kidnapped their own children and fled to Cuba. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
The Hakkens have been on the lam after they allegedly snatched the two boys from their grandmother’s home in Florida. The couple lost custody of their children last year. There is an international manhunt for this family, and here they are, blending in among the other boats.
So why would parents have to kidnap their own kids and flee to what most people would consider a socialists hellhole?
…the police department in Slidell, Louisiana, issued its own statement offering background on the Hakkens and why the boys were taken from the parents last year. In June of 2012, Slidell police responded to a disturbance report at a hotel where Josh and Sharyn Hakken were staying with their sons, the police statement said. “When police arrived, both Mr. and Mrs. Hakken were acting in a bizarre manner that alarmed officers. They were talking about ‘completing their ultimate journey’ and were traveling across the country to ‘take a journey to the Armageddon’,” the Slidell police statement said, adding, “Let it be noted that both of their children were present in the hotel room at the time.” Because of the parents’ behavior and “the fact that narcotics and weapons were located inside of the hotel room,” the children were taken by child welfare officers, and Joshua Hakken was arrested on drug charges, the statement said.
Which brings us to recent events.
At some point over the past few months, the children were sent to live with their grandmother, Patricia Hauser, the mother of Sharyn Hakken. Sheriff’s investigators say Josh Hakken entered Hauser’s home at 6:30 a.m. last Wednesday. She told police that he tied her up and fled with the children… Those investigators told CNN they believe Hakken joined up with his wife, who was waiting in their pickup truck, and the family drove to a parking garage. A short time later, investigators said, Hakken is believed to have taken a sailboat out of a private slip in nearby Madeira Beach.
And, as you already know, they wound up in Cuba.
I first saw this story in the Miami Airport, and it referred to the Hakkens as being anti-government. Naturally, I immediately took their side.
But as I’ve learned more details, I’m conflicted. There’s nothing wrong with the parents having firearms, though one hopes they took steps to make sure the young kids didn’t have access to the guns.
On the other hand, I think there is something wrong with drug use, particularly in front of the children. Nonetheless, that’s not a sufficient reason in my mind for the government to seize someone’s kids unless there’s some evidence of genuine endangerment.
I am weirded out, though, with regards to their alleged language about taking an “ultimate journey” to “the Armageddon.” Are they suicidal nutcases? Are they mentally unstable? Those would be reasons for intervention.
Assuming, of course, that we can trust that the cops and other government officials provided an accurate rendition of events.
But assuming that’s the case, do you think the state had the right to take the kids from the Hakkens?
And if you want more challenging examples of “you be the judge,” peruse this list.
- Is it appropriate to put politicians on trial for economic malfeasance?
- Is it excessive vigilante justice to set your daughter’s rapist on fire?
- Should prisoners with AIDS be segregated from other convicts?
- Which tax collection tactic is more brutal and unjust?
- When a wheelchair-bound guy uses a baseball bat to punish his granddaughter’s molester, what’s the right response?
- Should politicians set pay levels at government-owned firms?
- Is sharia law sometimes appropriate?
- Is the Netherlands right to segregate troublemakers from the general population?
- What do you do about self-destructive behavior in a government-run healthcare system?
- Should there be laws against incest among consenting adults?
- Should motorists be allowed to warn other drivers about speed traps?
- Is jury nullification the right approach for victimless crimes?
- Was this angry father wrong to take matters into his own hands?
- Should drunk-rafting be a crime?
- Should rich people pay higher speeding fines?
[…] principle should be applied. So let’s revive the “you be the judge” series, which asks thorny questions about the workings of a free society, and explore the case of income-based traffic […]
This story gets better, as stories go, that is…. Now Joshua is accussed of faking insanity. Since that appears to be the reason the Gov. snatched the kids, this should make an interesting court case…. They say he was crazy, and feared the evil Gov…..Now that his kids have been taken, doesn’t that prove he was sane back then? Living in Tampa, in a State were you’re considered crazy if you don’t have an invisible friend (and I think you know what I mean), where the rogue DEA is known to arrainge massive amounts of coke to be flown about, and folks train pilots who don’t care about taking off, or landing, the State were they haven’t quite figured out how to count votes yet, but let you gun down the unarmed, but only if you’re “standing your ground”….. was that a run-un sentence? Let’s see if folks stand around while this poor sucker gets life in prison for wanting to watch his kids grow up…. You know this topic is “dirty” when you see the “hit” pieces coming out of that paper in New York” Let’s see……
[…] We had an example of this type of quandary earlier in the year, which actually resulted in parents fleeing to Cuba. […]
[…] fleeing to Cuba a justifiable way to keep your children away from government […]
My gut instinct is that the police are lying in order to get their numbers up. I wouldn’t be surprised if they used the children in an attempt to force a plea bargain.
@Michael Gersh and @mare’s perspectives have a lot going for them.
The problem here is that government employees can tell you any number of untruths, and you have no legal recourse – believing any of them is highly problematic. So be careful about taking any action on just an unverified belief without checking out the inevitably different other side to the story…
There are numerous reports of such employees making up stories, even evidence, to justify their illegal actions.
Slightly difficult because we don’t have the details of the case, so if they are a danger they should have the kids custody given to the Grandmother.
Now fleeing to a Communist hellhole might be a sign that they are really crazy.
The problem for me here, is having to make a decision based on media reports. Not only are they more often than not incorrect in some way, but they are also “quoting” the police who I also often have a problem with as a source.Too many unknowns as you said.
For the record, children DO NOT belong to the state. A parents right to raise a child however they see fit is an important American principle.
I’m not sure how much we can trust the statements of the police, however, assuming they were accurate, isn’t this just the kind of behavior/speech that gives us cause to intervene and evaluate?
Much like Jared Loughner and James Holmes. Instead of taking away even a fraction of America’s gun rights, how about intervening on specific individuals when there is pretty good cause.
If it looks like a psycho and smells like a psycho, let’s see if they’re psychos.
I wonder about follow up on the parents and what they did legally to try and get the children back and why they didn’t?
Lots of unknowns.
While the quotes about taking the “ultimate journey” to “Armageddon” sound odd, without more context, that could mean lots of things. I’m sure plenty of people have at one time or another made comments about making a “spiritual journey” or going on a “quest to find themselves” or some such. It could mean anything from “I am thinking about the big questions of life that philosophers and theologians throughout the centuries have pondered” to “I believe the world will end tomorrow at 6:18 and before that time comes I must collect all the jello in the country and take it to Roswell for safekeeping”. I’m always cautious when I hear someone say that a person was making strange and crazy remarks. Crazy-sounding to whom? Atheists consider Fundamentalists pretty crazy and vice versa, but both manage to function productively in society.
Life imitates fiction. Welcome to the world of pre-crime, where police interpret what they believe are statements of intent to do something bad, and acting on that feeling, remove the kids from their parental home. There needs to be a higher requirement of proof before kids can be removed from their parent’s care. Instead, the law requires the least amount of evidence before acting – it is for the children – that is their excuse.