A reader from New York has a follow-up question for me.
Referencing a “Question of the Week” from last month, in which I expressed guarded optimism that America could be saved, she wants to know what I would do if things go the wrong way.
In other words, what if things go really wrong and America suffers a Greek-style fiscal collapse? And imagine how bad that might be since there wouldn’t be an IMF or European Central Bank capable of providing bailouts to the United States.
Perhaps because of an irrational form of patriotism, I’m fairly certain that I will always live in the United States and I will be fighting to preserve (or restore) liberty until my last breath.
But I probably would want my children someplace safe and stable, so I’ll answer the question from that perspective.
The obvious first choice is a zero-income tax jurisdiction like the Cayman Islands that is prosperous and reasonably well governed.
But I’m not sure about the long-run outlook for the Cayman Islands, in part because the politicians there have flirted with an income tax and in part because the jurisdiction inevitably would suffer if the United States was falling apart.
So what’s a place that is stable and not overly tied to the American economy.
Then the obvious choice is Switzerland. That nation’s long-run fiscal outlook is relatively favorable because of modest-sized government and a very good spending control mechanism.
But while Switzerland is not dependent on the U.S. economy, it is surrounded by European welfare states. And I’m fairly certain that nations such as France, Italy, and (perhaps) Germany will collapse before America.
And even though most Swiss households have machine guns and the nation presumably can defend itself from barbarian hordes in search of a new welfare check, Switzerland’s probably not the ideal location.
Estonia is one of my favorite countries, and they’ve implemented some good reforms such as the flat tax. But I worry about demographic decline. Plus, I’m a weather wimp and it’s too chilly most of the year.
Another option is a stable nation in Latin America, perhaps Chile, Panama, or Costa Rica. I haven’t been to Chile, but I’m very impressed by the nation’s incredible progress in recent decades. I have been to Panama many times and it is one of my favorite nations. I’ve only been to Costa Rica two times, but it also seems like a nice country.
The bad news is that I don’t speak Spanish (and my kids don’t speak the language, either). The good news is that Hispanics appear to be the world’s happiest people, so that should count for something.

“G’day mate, we’ve privatized our social security system!”
This brings me to Australia, the country that probably would be at the top of my list. The burden of government spending in Australia is less than it is in the United States.
But the gap isn’t that large. The reason I like Australia is that the nation has a privatized Social Security system (called Superannuation) and the long-run fiscal outlook is much, much better than the United States.
Plus the Aussies are genuinely friendly and they speak an entertaining form of English.
So if America goes under, I recommend going Down Under.
[…] bottom line is that it is costly to escape bad policy in Washington, but at least we have more options if we want to find good policy at the state […]
[…] bottom line is that it is costly to escape bad policy in Washington, but at least we have more options if we want to find good policy at the state […]
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
[…] For what it’s worth, I still think Australia might have the best long-run outlook for human […]
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
But what about medical liberty? They right to choose your own Health care, with out the government regulating, peering over your shoulder or threatening to stew your children? That will be the most important issue in the end. Is there any place untouched by globalism and the WHO
[…] that being said, Australia is still my top choice for where to go if (when?) America suffers a Greek-style fiscal and economic […]
[…] economic output (as in France) or a more reasonable amount, such as what’s found in Canada or Australia (as Professor Tirole […]
[…] I’m also here because I wanted to research possible options in case the United States somehow wound up with a hard-core leftist in the White […]
[…] economic output (as in France) or a more reasonable amount, such as what’s found in Canada or Australia (as Professor Tirole […]
[…] performance. I also appeared on The Outsiders in 2017. Part of my plan to curry favor so that I can escape to Australia if (when?) America suffers Greek-style […]
[…] in Sydney, Australia, but not because I’m confirming that this country will be my escape option if (when?) the United States suffers a Greek-style fiscal […]
[…] suggested that Australia as an option if the United States ever suffers a Greek-style collapse, but my answer wasn’t based solely on that country’s level of […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
[…] are there so few liberty-oriented societies compared to the number of places with statist […]
Another thing:
escapeamericanow.info
The owner, John Cobin, has given some (mostly good) reasons for leaving America for Chile. But sadly, what turned me off is his condemnation of (90% of) Chileans as “dishonest liars” in his site. Some of his readers even went as far as to say that this dishonesty is a societal ill prevalent in all of Latin America, which hypothetically would include Costa Rica and Panama. One such commentator went to the extreme of using this to justify preventing any more Latin American “scum” from entering the USA.
I honestly don’t see any logic in moving to another country and relishing all its benefits while condemning the locals for any apparent flaws, real or perceived. It more or less screams colonialism.
As far as Costa Rica and Panama are concerned, I took a look at the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, where both Costa Rica and Panama were colored yellow (Moderately Free), while the Fraser Institute colors them blue (Most Free). What metrics do the Heritage Foundation and Fraser Institute use to get their data? More specifically, why the discrepancy?
[…] un billet de 2013, je recommandais l’Australie comme meilleure option pour ceux qui envisagent de trouver un […]
[…] in 2013, when I was still doing a “question of the week” column, I suggested that Australian was the best option for those contemplating a new home in the event of some sort of Greek-style fiscal collapse in the […]
[…] since I’m a policy wonk with a special fondness for the nation, let’s instead acknowledge Australia Day by citing some very interesting […]
[…] since I’m a policy wonk with a special fondness for the nation, let’s instead acknowledge Australia Day by citing some very interesting […]
[…] since I’m a policy wonk with a special fondness for the nation, let’s instead acknowledge Australia Day by citing some very interesting […]
[…] since I’m a policy wonk with a special fondness for the nation, let’s instead acknowledge Australia Day by citing some very interesting […]
[…] government coercion, what’s the most libertarian nation in the world? Is it Australia, which I recommended as the best option for escaping Americans if the U.S. becomes a failed welfare […]
[…] government coercion, what’s the most libertarian nation in the world? Is it Australia, which I recommended as the best option for escaping Americans if the U.S. becomes a failed welfare […]
[…] government coercion, what’s the most libertarian nation in the world? Is it Australia, which I recommended as the best option for escaping Americans if the U.S. becomes a failed welfare […]
[…] government coercion, what’s the most libertarian nation in the world? Is it Australia, which I recommended as the best option for escaping Americans if the U.S. becomes a failed welfare […]
[…] (if America goes under, I recommend going Down Under) Mitchell on wasting the mining boom in WA. Dan continues his European odyssey with some mordant […]
[…] P.P.P.S. Which is why I told the students in my conclusion that they should apply for Australian visas. […]
[…] even wrote that Australia is the place to go if politicians wreck the American dream and turn us into a New World version of […]
[…] that being said, Australia is still my top choice for where to go if (when?) America suffers a Greek-style fiscal and economic […]
[…] that being said, Australia is still my top choice for where to go if (when?) America suffers a Greek-style fiscal and economic […]
[…] Notwithstanding all this bad news, I’m not quite ready to pack my bags for Australia. […]
[…] Notwithstanding all this bad news, I’m not quite ready to pack my bags for Australia. […]
[…] year. To be sure, that’s not a complaint about policy. But it’s one of the reasons why I recommend Australia for people seeking a haven from bad U.S. […]
[…] perhaps now you can understand why Australia is my choice if (when?) the welfare state collapses in the United States (though I’m still of the opinion […]
[…] perhaps now you can understand why Australia is my choice if (when?) the welfare state collapses in the United States (though I’m still of the opinion […]
[…] maybe I should consider escaping to Canada rather than Australia if (when?) America falls […]
[…] maybe I should consider escaping to Canada rather than Australia if (when?) America falls […]
[…] maybe I should consider escaping to Canada rather than Australia if (when?) America falls […]
[…] maybe I should consider escaping to Canada rather than Australia if (when?) America falls […]
[…] maybe I should consider escaping to Canada rather than Australia if (when?) America falls […]
[…] this is one of the reasons why I picked Australia when asked which nation to choose if (when?) America suffers a Greek-style fiscal and economic […]
[…] now you understand why I wrote a column identifying safe havens that might remain stable while other nations are suffering Greek-style […]
[…] now you understand why I wrote a column identifying safe havens that might remain stable while other nations are suffering Greek-style […]
dude this is great!
[…] my already-low opinion of politicians would drop to a record depth. And it also might be time to escape to a country that still has some sensible people and is less likely to suffer fiscal […]
[…] early 2013, a reader asked me the best place to go if America suffered a Greek-style economic […]
I have thought austrailia and new zealand would be good places too. What happens if we lose our pensions? Not sure. I think there is so much more to worry about than bank closings, etc. What about jade helm 15 and the plan to enslave Christians, etc? If I had small children I would leave now and get them out of the USA.
[…] entitlement reform, and there’s a non-trivial chance that may happen in 2017. So no need to abandon ship quite […]
[…] entitlement reform, and there’s a non-trivial chance that may happen in 2017. So no need to abandon ship quite […]
[…] entitlement reform, and there’s a non-trivial chance that may happen in 2017. So no need to abandon ship quite […]
I would go to either London or Australia..
[…] that’s when folks might consider looking for escape options because America’s future will be very […]
[…] that’s when folks might consider looking for escape options because America’s future will be very […]
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
[…] Australia also is one of my favorite nations, in part because of its privatized Social Security system. […]
[…] So keep places such as Australia in mind just in case you need to escape when America’s fiscal chickens come home to roost. […]
In this order: !)Chile 2)Paraguay 3)Colombia. Needless to say I’m learning Spanish.
[…] might experience European-type disarray because of big government and I even wrote about which nations that might be good escape options if the welfare state causes our country to […]
[…] Though maybe there will be some nations that remain stable as the world’s welfare states collapse. And if emigration is your preferred option, I’d bet on Australia. […]
[…] Though maybe there will be some nations that remain stable as the world’s welfare states collapse. And if emigration is your preferred option, I’d bet on Australia. […]
[…] P.S. I’m a big fan of Australia. Their private Social Security system is a huge success, and I’ve even suggested that it might be the best place to go if America suffers a Greek-style fiscal collapse. […]
[…] part of my “Question of the Week” series, I said that Australia probably would be the best option if the United States suffered some sort of Greek-style fiscal meltdown that led to a societal […]
[…] in February, I said Australia probably was the country most likely to survive and prosper as much of the world suffered fiscal collapse and social […]
Yeah, I know, and love, the Chaser ad about Greens.
But Aussies are getting some vital things about their politics seriously wrong. It is a real shame because it has a lot going for it. There is no reason apart from bad politics, that Australia could not have housing as low cost as Texas, manufacturing costs almost as low as Texas, and a far more competitive exchange rate than it has after years of exporting valuable rocks and borrowing money offshore to fund a property bubble.
People enamoured with Australia need to be warned, that’s all. I’d put off moving there until after their property bubble has burst and you should be able to pick up some bargains. Unless you are selling a similarly inflated-price property in LA or SF, expect to have to pay double or triple what you get for your American property, to get the same thing in any of the 5 major Australian cities. And the climate is NOT California……!!!!! It is far more similar to Texas and the US Desert States.
Yes, the absence of a border with Mexico and the absence of inner city gang warfare over drug trade is a huge advantage. Fortunately the politically correct approach to immigration legal and illegal, of the Rudd government, was short-lived. Probably no future Labour government would dare try it again.
It was a hypothetical question. Don’t take it too serious. Australia is pretty good. No reason to have a gun. get to relax on that. The news isn’t overtly political and rammed down the throat.
Oh the Greens. Refer to the Chaser ad (Yes We Canberra) for the Greens. Green voters: disillusioned, inner-city trendy, men getting with hippy ladies, look alternative or stoned on election day. Funny ad. Then there is the “Every candidate is …..” song
Daniel, I hope you notice this very belated contribution to this thread.
I’m with Bruno. What Texas and much of Southern and heartland USA has that Australia does not, and this difference is really, really going to tell very soon, is near-total freedom regarding land use; for example, the freedom to buy rural land and develop it for housing or commercial use.
Everywhere that does not have this freedom, is experiencing a disgraceful triumph of the rentiers in urban property and finance, due to “save the planet” urban planning. Australia is now one of the world’s worst examples of this.
The inimitable James Delingpole put it like this about Australia:
“A week into my Australian tour and I already I love the country and its people so much I could happily stay here forever. There’s just one small problem – well, one bloody big problem actually: the rampaging political correctness. How, in God’s name, did the robust, no-nonsense pioneer spirit of the original settlers who carved an earthly paradise out of burning hell allow itself to be watered down, warped and wimpified by a minority of tofu-knitting greens and tight-sphinctered lefties?……
“……the whole region is in thrall to the agents of DEC (Western Australia’s Department of Environment and Conservation) which enforces environmental correctness throughout the state with a zeal which would not have disgraced Imperial Japan’s secret police the Kempitai…….
“…….For anyone in Western Australia trying to make a living outside the cities be it mining, tourism, the wine trade, fishing or farming, DEC is more vexatious a pestilence than a swarm of sand flies. What’s more, local taxpayers must stump up an annual A$ 300,000 for the privilege of having their economy spavined, their businesses hamstrung and their liberties shackled by DEC’s army of sanctimonious brown shirts.
And while I’ve seen and heard for myself how bad Western Australia is, I gather that the further east you go the worse it gets. No wonder the Queenslanders couldn’t wait to get shot of the Greenies terrorising their beautiful state. Let’s hope for Australia’s sake the electoral carnage continues into 2013 when the Aussies have the chance to tell Julia Gillard exactly where she can stick her Carbon Tax.
What I realise, though, now that I’m here, is that the Carbon Tax is just a fraction of the problem. There is, for example, the equally stupid Mining Tax which is punishing one of the most productive sectors of the Australian economy, killing jobs and driving business abroad. And then there all the Eco Fascists in local government poisoning the wells with their sustainability programmes and their pursuit of the UN’s sinister Agenda 21…….”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100152437/australias-green-orchidectomy/
I highly recommend a finance and economics blog in Australia called “Macrobusiness”. Its writing team are genuinely concerned Australian experts who are contrarians regarding the whole illusory basis of Australia’s “economic strength”.
Australia is a typical example of two classic economic problems. One is “Dutch disease” – Australia is a major exporter of raw resources but does very little of “added value”, in stark contrast to Southern and heartland US States where local resources booms also feed into local “value added” booms.
The other classic problem in Australia is a wholly illusory “wealth effect” from sustained inflation in real house prices (actually sustained increases in urban land prices – net of structure values, this inflation is probably now around 2000% since 1999). The whole mood in Australia is frighteningly and absurdly similar to the “new normal” thinking that pervaded the US in 2007, or the same thinking, PLUS the “we’re different” thinking, that pervaded Ireland in 2008.
A tell-tale sign in all such cases, is a shrinking “tradables” sector of the economy; Australia has this, along with stagnating economic productivity. The “wealth effect” Ponzi in urban land guiles people into borrowing unwisely for consumption, while each cohort of first home buyers will be doing less and less discretionary spending for their entire lifetimes, having to take on mortgages 3 times larger in real terms than their parents did.
Australia is also following Britain down the same route of destroying all industry that requires land space and low workforce cost pressures. GM has just announced closure of its Australian manufacturing, following Ford a few months ago.
The absolute opposite of this, is the boom in both resources and “value added” that is taking place in Southern USA and whichever heartland States have “right to work” laws, minimal constraints on resource extraction, minimal constraints on the uses of land, and extremely affordable housing.
America’s Red State Growth Corridors
By Joel Kotkin
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323549204578315714070017932
The below gloomy prognostication re Australian manufacturing is bad enough, but completely fails to note the contributing cause of urban land costs and “green tape” strangled urban economies:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/energy-taxes-are-the-nail-in-the-coffin-of-local-manufacturing/story-e6frgd0x-1226637139010#mm-premium
If I were to attempt to answer James Delingpole’s question of how on earth did Australia end up so in thrall to the eco-fascists, my answer would be that it is a perverse consequence of Australia’s “transferable vote” electoral system at the local and State level. The mainstream Labour Party does a deal with the Greens, to secure “second preference” votes from Green voters, in return for which they enact Green policies. Never mind how much these policies hurt workers and the poor, leftwingers from the Labour Party’s leadership down to the lowest activists and loyal voters, are too stupid to join the dots.
Note that Australia’s destructive periodic bush fires are a consequence of eco-absolutist prohibitions on the clearing of firebreaks, controlled burn-offs in winter-time, the clearing of growth surrounding roads and housing, and the introduction of “exotic” species of trees that do not burn like native eucalyptus gum. The eco-fascist Goebbellses say, of course, that “global warming” is responsible.
https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2009/07-08/the-lessons-of-black-saturday/
[…] in February, I said Australia probably was the country most likely to survive and prosper as much of the world suffered fiscal collapse and social […]
[…] Question of the Week: Where Will You Go if America Collapses? […]
[…] keep places such as Australia in mind just in case you need to escape when America’s fiscal chickens come home to […]
Great country, not sure I like their views on GUns. Pretty much outlawed them I believe. New Zealand? Both are expensive, but both are very selective in who is in and out.
[…] keep places such as Australia in mind just in case you need to escape when America’s fiscal chickens come home to […]
[…] like this make me wonder whether I should emigrate, though the rest of the world tends to be in worse shape so the moral of the story is that we need […]
This is an important topic, and more should be written on it. This is the first I’ve seen anyone talking about it in depth, and I appreciate that. Even if America doesn’t collapse, it would be worth noting if there’s a better country somewhere else.
I think someone should put together a list with objective, easily compared rankings on lots of variables. When describing the conservative paradise, I’d include the per capita GDP, recent historical average GDP growth rate, recent historical average inflation rate, whether or not they have sovereignty over their monetary policy (which many European countries don’t due to the Euro), total military spending, military spending as a percent of GDP, divorce rate, gun laws, language, climate, size of government, average tax rate, and highest tax rate. Maybe I’ll start a list like that myself (but probably not).
Dan Mitchell has discussed the issue of where one should RESIDE. But he has sidestepped the question of the country for which one should seek CITIZENSHIP. I’m hardly an expert on this topic, but my understanding is that for people who are not very wealthy, the number of countries willing to hand over citizenship to a foreigner is relatively small. Whatever the number, that is an important part of the analysis.
test
[…] notwithstanding my post about where I would go if America suffers a Greek-style fiscal collapse, I suspect I’ll stay in the United States and fight until my last breath. So I get a little […]
Preachin’ to the choir. I reached the same conclusions you have reached. The big question is, when to go? For those with the opportunity, seeking citizenship now, so you may depart whenever desired, seems a good idea. As a physician, my services are in demand in Australia, and I could probably swing it. Any other thoughts? Anybody consider Singapore? New Zealand?
I say stay right here in the USA and if it comes to a fight get in the fight and well fight. Cowards run away and thats all I have to say.
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
[…] Unless we want America to become Greece or France, at which point productive people may be forced to emigrate – assuming there are still some sensible nations left in the world. […]
[…] Australia also is one of my favorite nations, in part because of its privatized Social Security system. […]
[…] Australia also is one of my favorite nations, in part because of its privatized Social Security system. […]
[…] part of my “Question of the Week” series, I said that Australia probably would be the best option if the United States suffered some sort of Greek-style fiscal meltdown that led to a societal […]
[…] part of my “Question of the Week” series, I said that Australia probably would be the best option if the United States suffered some sort of Greek-style fiscal meltdown that led to a societal […]
[…] part of my “Question of the Week” series, I said that Australia probably would be the best option if the United States suffered some sort of Greek-style fiscal meltdown that led to a societal […]
[…] There are probably other reasons, but I think you get the idea. No wonder I’ve been speculating about where people should move when America descends into Greek-style economic chaos. […]
[…] So with any luck, they’ll be some tax havens around that the rest of us can utilize when that day of reckoning occurs. […]
“I’m going to stay right here in the Great State of Texas. Something tells me we are gonna be fine down here.”
It does cross one’s mind! I love my city, in Ohio, but sometimes I wonder whether the better long-term choice would be to move to Texas, so that if the United States ever falls apart (so to speak), I’ll be inside when it happens (so to speak).
I’m going to stay right here in the Great State of Texas. Something tells me we are gonna be fine down here.
Lots of luck, there, mate. The Aussies have a VERY stringent immigration policy… check out their requirements for immigrastion on line and you will see what I mean. I would qualify as to educstion, rexperience in an approved job field, etc., but they won’t let me in because I am too old.Too bad. Not only that, they won’t even let you visit unless you can deposit a return ticket to your county of origin…
Australia? Too many poisonous snakes, and too few guns.
At least the Australian nation-state is mostly co-extensive with a separate continent. That’s another point in its favor.
Knowing when and where to emigrate, is the entire purpose of my political philosophy; so maybe I should say a few words here.
Broadly speaking I agree with our distinguished host, eg I too would hesitate to leave the US if i were living there. However, there have been very worrying developments, such as the exit tax.
One important point is that it is the Pax Americana that has allowed places like the Cayman Islands, Chile, Switzerland, Estonia, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc to flourish. I am much more worried about the end of the Pax Americana than about socialist developments in the US.
A few minor points:
* learning a second language is much less difficult than people think, and if your first language is English, the locals will be grateful even for pathetic attempts (if your first language is not English, then the locals will excuse you for speaking English);
* another country that deserves attention is Mauritius: nice weather, nice beaches, and out there in the Indian Ocean who’s going to give it undesired attention?
* speaking of weather, today I skied for about an hour here in Estonia; as usual, I got back home with my undershirt soaked in sweat: it’s hot in this country.
[…] ARTICLE HERE […]