Whenever I find a story that involves a thorny issue of right vs wrong, I like to see what readers think.
Indeed, this has become a semi-regular feature of this blog. I’ve cited some tough cases in previous posts, dealing with difficult topics such as vigilante justice, brutal tax collection tactics, child molestation, Sharia law, healthcare, incest, jury nullification, and vigilante justice (again).
Today’s episode of “You Be the Judge” features a legal case in Florida involving whether motorists can be ticketed for warning other drivers about speed traps.
When the Florida Highway Patrol pulls someone over on the highway, it’s usually because they were speeding. But Eric Campbell was pulled over and ticketed while he was driving the speed limit. Campbell says, “I was coming up the Veterans Expressway and I notice two Florida Highway Patrol Cars sitting on the side of the road in the median, with lights off.” Campbell says he did what he always does: flashed his lights on and off to warn drivers coming from the other direction that there was speed trap ahead. According to Campbell, 60 seconds after passing the trooper, “They were on my tail and they pulled me over.” Campbell says the FHP trooper wrote him a ticket for improper flashing of high beams. Campbell says the trooper told him what he had done was illegal. But later Campbell learned that is not the case. He filed a class action suit which says “Florida Statue 316.2397″ — under which Campbell was cited — “does not prohibit the flashing of headlights as a means of communications, nor does it in any way reference flashing headlights or the use of high beams.” …Since 2005, FHP records show more than 10,429 drivers have been cited under the statute. …Campbell says FHP had no right to ticket him or anyone under the current law and he adds the agency is not being honest when it says it doesn’t write tickets to increase revenue or punish people, but rather to get the motorist to slow down on the highway. If that were true, Campbell says the FHP should be delighted with him, because drivers did slow down before troopers could give them a ticket.
I despise the use of speed traps, particularly since they always seem to be set up in places with inappropriately low speed limits, so it won’t surprise you that my gut instinct is to side with the motorists. And since there apparently isn’t any law in Florida against flashing your high beams, this is a slam-dunk issue.
But let’s take this to the next level: Should there be a law against flashing high beams?
Presumably not, but I confess this example raises broader issues. Let’s say the cops are doing something completely legitimate, such as searching for a murderer. I assume all of us would view it as wrong for an otherwise innocent person to warn the murderer the cops were about to search a certain area.
In cases like that, an obstruction-of-justice charge (or maybe aiding-and-abetting, I’m not a lawyer, so I’m guessing) seems appropriate. But where do you draw the line? If you know your friend is smoking pot, should you be liable for not ratting him out? Hopefully not, but what if your friend is a rapist? In that case, I hope we would all agree it would be right to inform the cops. But keep in mind the real issue is whether you should be subject to arrest if you don’t.
These are hard issues, and they underscore the importance of having laws that are just. It’s much easier to support strong enforcement if we know the government isn’t using the law to generate revenue or harass people engaged in victimless behavior.
>But let’s take this to the next level: Should there be a law against flashing high beams?
No. Absolutely not.
Flashing high beams are not only used to communicate with cars on the other side of the highway, but also to communicate with the car in front of you (and not just to tell them to get out of the way – sometimes there is a problem with the vehicle), or to indicate to a truck that it is clear to change lanes.
It is a form of communication, should be fully protected under the 1st amendment, and should be exercised under presumed innocence – unlike most traffic violations seem to be.
Even in the case of your “searching for a murderer” – No. Absolutely not.
If travelers communicate that there’s a speed trap ahead and the effect is to lower speeds of their fellow travelers, then they are actually supporting the law’s safety intent. Since they are also interrupting revenue to local governments, the likely real reason for the speed trap, there will be blowback
If people are required to report “crimes” that is both forced speech and imposed liability for the actions of others.
A legal system that requires 1. silence when government is active or 2. forced expression when citizens are engaged in unapproved activities is totalitarian and violates the constitution.
This is simply another case of the Gestapo police state in action. It won’t be long before what is left of the constitution, is done away with by the DOJ
If warning folks about a statist/paternalist checkpoint down the road is wrong, then good people should never want to be right.
I was told that you couldn’t do that while the police could see you. I see now that my mentors knew what petty, vindictive little s***s the police are.
“Since 2005, FHP records show more than 10,429 drivers have been cited under the statute. …”
That statistic is appalling. It is a good thing that someone has the means to fight it. Whether by tickets or high-beams, the state should be happy that the job is getting done.
But let’s take this to the next level: Should there be a law against flashing high beams?
I agree with Travis above. The point of the law is to slow down traffic. If traffic is slowed because of threat of ticket or due to communication of police, the intent has been met.
It’s the same reason why I support mobile phone apps that map out red light cameras.
But to get to the broader issue of rapists and pot smokers, it seems to me there is a distinction to be made between crimes with victims and victimless crimes; turn in the rapist or murderer, but leave the pot head alone.
[...] Govt. / Liberty. First They Came for Kid-Run Lemonade Stands,IV On War, Obama Has Been Worse Than Bush IncanDissent Clear eyes on government Is It Wrong to Warn other Motorists about Speed Traps? [...]
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Above, Mitchell also compares 3 different examples as to when someone should or should not be ticketed/arrested for simply communicating with a “perpetrator” of some crime or another…All 3 cases involve the difference between whether the “perp” has actually caused injury to another person or not.
Example 1: Yes, warning a murderer that cops are after him would be a criminal act in itself, because the murderer is already accountable for causing a human death.
Example 2: Not ratting out the “pothead friend.” The pothead in question is NOT violating the Rights or causing injury/damage to anyone else or their property, as long as he smokes it in the privacy of his own home.
Example 3: Not ratting out a “rapist friend” IS a crime because the perp HAS committed injury/damage to someone else.
So, indeed, it’s not a crime to communicate a warning of a speedtrap to other motorists…In fact, you are telling them that a potential violator of their Rights is laying in ambush for them, thus, helping to safeguard THEIR Rights! In truth, is anyone else’s Rights being violated or their property being damaged when a cop pulls you over for speeding? NO! Therefore you are commiting NO crime & speedtraps are nothing more or less than an act of EXTORTION under the “color of law,” not the enforcement of any true Law.
This is the basis of our Law system as it was established by the Founding Fathers…Government is charged with UPHOLDING our Rights & obey the Due Process of Law in punishing those who have violated the Equal Rights of others. “Pre-emptive Law Enforcement” is NOT AN OPTION included in the Law. Also, any legislation enacted into Law must also conform with these principles, otherwise the Law itself automatically NULLIFIES the new legislation (There’s no need for a court judgement to actually declare a law to be invalid under these circumstances…It just IS nullified).
Yes, our nation, government & Law has been severely twisted away from our State & US Constitutions…But the only ones who can truly enforce them is We the People. Nearly all, if not all, State Constitutions include phrasing to the effect that “the source of all political power originates from the People.” Even the Preamble of the US Constitution states that “We the People…ordain & establish this Constitution.” This is only ONE of the primary principles stated in the Declaration of Independence that made its way into the Constitution under more specific terms.
As contracts of employment, every government Officer is required to take on the Oath of Office (to protect, defend & uphold the Constitution) before being allowed to exercise any of the Powers delegated to the Office…Any abuse of that authority results in immediate removal from office & follwed up with charges under indictment: ie; immediately fired from the job & held accountable for any crimes perpetrated against the People and/or State Constitution and/or US Constituion. Also, as contracts of employment, “We the People” are the employers & the Officers are the Employees, therefore the Officers are ALWAYS held accountable to the Public for their behavior while acting in the name of the Office; In short, there is no backing of the Law for a judge to declare that any Citizen has “no standing” to press indictment against a government officer for misbehaviors while in Office.
The main reason things have gotten so badly warped is because the “bosses” have simply ignored the “employees” when they run roughshod over us…What they’re doing now has NO resemblance to the Law except as acting as the violators of it. We the People are the ultimate interpreters (in truth, if any Constitution needs changes or clarifications added, they themselves include the Due Process for MAKING necessary changes…ex: Article 5 in the US Constitution. The employees have NO LAWFUL GROUNDS to enact arbitrary re-interpretations on their own) & ultimate enforcers of these contracts of employment. We’ve simply stopped enforcing the terms & conditions of our Constitutions & corrupted Officers have STOLEN our own Offices away from us.
While I don’t believe the flashing of lights should be a ticketable offense, I think a speeding ticket is more of a deterrent to reduce speeding. I warn of potential traffic hazards, but not a parked police car.
316.239 (7)
(7) Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway. ** posters note:(With exception for the provisions made for such things as emergency and working/authorized vehicles)
pretty clear to me.
^^ ohh once it’s in the books, it has to make sense rightt? …..
….
You will never know it when it hits you where anything you do will be against the law then.
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the bottom line, you’re disobeying whatever traffic law is in effect. laws are made for your safety and to prevent chaos. it is the nature of today’s society to find fault and not take responsibility for their actions, and justifying it – ‘he/she made me do it’, obey the law and you won’t have chaos. you argue traffic cameras and blame the city for wanting to just ‘make money’. right! obey the lights, and the camera won’t flash. it’s that simple in life.
[...] Should motorists be allowed to warn other drivers about speed traps? [...]
[...] the United States, I’m embarrassed to admit, you can get in trouble for warning other motorists about speed [...]
[...] Should motorists be allowed to warn other drivers about speed traps? [...]
[...] Should motorists be allowed to warn other drivers about speed traps? [...]
[...] Should motorists be allowed to warn other drivers about speed traps? [...]
When the police use silhouette, decoy cars to slow people down, it is clear that the reason is simply to slow traffic down. Flashing your lights to warn others of a speed trap serves the same purpose. I thought the goal was to make the roads safer, not to write tickets. Oh wait…I forgot about the daily ticket quota.
“where do you draw the line?”
Thank goodness for jury-nullification and the lessons it teaches. Whether you’re on a jury or not, it’s your job to decide what is just – what constitutes justice – rather than just follow the law…